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美国网友问:韩国真的有5000年的历史吗?为什么不为人知?

科技新闻网 2019-12-10 11:21:09

众所周知,世界四大文明古国分别是古巴比伦、古埃及、古印度与中国,著名的《世界文明史》中也写到,世界五大文明发源地分别是古巴比伦、古埃及、古印度、中国、古希腊,并没有权威机构能够证明“古朝鲜”是世界古文明发源地之一。因为国际上对古文明的判定是有标准的,首先要具备独立的文字、创建城市和制造青铜器等等,需满足这些条件才能够被认定为古文明之一,显然韩国不具备这些条件。以文字举例,在公元约6-9世纪开始,高丽就在采用汉字来作为书写文字,直到20世纪初才大量使用“朝鲜谚文”代替汉字,仅凭这一点,韩国就注定无法成为文明古国。

韩国如今牟足了劲,满世界宣扬他们拥有5000年历史,引起了各国网友们的关注热议,其中有一位美国网友在美版知乎上问道“韩国真的有5000年历史吗?”得到了各国热心网友们的分析解答,让我们看看他们是怎么说的吧。

网友回答1:

The 5000 year old history and culture is definitely claim known and promoted throughout Korea and talked about by Koreans when promoting tourism. Just Google "Korea 5000 year history" or "Korea 5000 year culture" and you will see. There is even a day in Korea commemorating this.

I don't know where Koreans got 5000 years from. They are probably looking at some archaeological discoveries from 5000 years ago showing evidence of some primitive culture that has no shown connection to modern Korean culture. As for written evidence, you could claim of Gija Joseon as evidence (which is now denied by Korean historians) would go back about 4000 years to the start of the Zhou

In my opinion, the Korean claim of 5000 years is just to match the Chinese claim. Koreans didn't want to claim more than 5000 years because the evidence is very flimsy and 5000 is probably something they could get away with (and Koreans have)

他们声称5000年的历史和文化是确凿的,并在整个韩国进行推广,韩国曾推广旅游业的时候也在这样说。只要谷歌“韩国5000年的历史”或“韩国5000年的文化”,你就会看到。韩国甚至有专门的一天来纪念这个节日。

我不知道韩国人5000年从哪里来。他们可能是在研究5000年前的一些考古发现,这些发现表明,一些原始文化与现代韩国文化没有任何联系。至于书面证据,你可以把朝鲜王朝作为证据(现在被韩国历史学家否认了),这可以追溯到4000年前的周朝。

在我看来,韩国5000年的历史只是为了和中国相匹配。韩国人不想声称自己拥有5000年以上的历史,因为证据很不可靠,5000年可能是他们可以侥幸逃脱的说法。

网友回答2:

it's just like japanese believing that their nation was first established by 660 BC. The time when was neolithic age for Japan. However, based on Chinese documents, first Korean kingdom is estimated to be established before 1000 BC.

就像日本人认为他们的国家是在公元前660年建立的一样。这是日本的新石器时代。然而,根据中国文献,第一个朝鲜王国估计建立于公元前1000年之前。

网友回答3:

Well, according to Korean nationalists, pretty much the whole of human civilisation originated from Korea, so I wouldn't put much store on it. You can see an example in this thread, where a Korean individual is essentially claiming that the Qing dynasty was Korean.

嗯,根据韩国民族主义者的说法,几乎整个人类文明都起源于韩国,所以我不会太看重这个问题。你可以在这个帖子里看到一个例子,一个韩国人声称清朝是韩国的。

网友回答4:

it think its around 3000-4000 years but cant say for sure. like most ancient history we have to make rough estimates

韩国认为他们大约有3000-4000年的历史,但不能肯定。像大多数古代史一样,必须做出粗略的估计。

网友回答5:

You can't include myths as part of your "history". That's why we don't study the Hsia/Xia dynasty as part of Chinese history, because of a lack of archaeological and textual support. In Korea, the earliest archaeological evidences of complex state and social hierarchy date to the 3rd and 4th cen AD, and texts recording history came after that.

The emergence of the early Korean and Japanese states are all largely the results of Chinese migration. Though they each have their own original and distinct cultures in the beginning, the arrival of new cultural influence, concepts and technologies spurred enormous changes, including the emergence of states. The Chinese migrants also became the ruling elites for a period, but they eventually became the locals. The early political structure and writings of these two states are both based on the Chinese model, so it's not wrong to say that the early Japanese and Korean states are part of the East Asian Civilization, just like the Roman Empire emerged from the Mesopotamian and Ancient Greek civilizations.

你不能把神话作为你的“历史”的一部分。这就是为什么我们不把夏朝作为中国历史的一部分来研究的原因,因为缺乏考古和文献的支持。在朝鲜,最早的复杂的国家和社会等级制度的考古证据可以追溯到公元3世纪和4世纪,记录这段历史的文献在那之后出现。

网友回答6:

They don't stop at 5000, some extreme korean nationalists even claim that they have 6000, 8000, or even 10000 years of history, LOL.

It really depends on how you define history. If you think that the Samhan states were the beginning of korean history, then that's about 2000 years; if you think unified Silla to be the beginning of korean history, it's about 1300 years or so.

他们不仅仅停留在5000年,一些极端的韩国民族主义者甚至声称他们有6000年,8000年,甚至10000年的历史,哈哈。

这取决于你如何定义历史。如果你认为三韩时期是韩国历史的开端,那就是2000年左右;如果你认为统一新罗是韩国历史的开端,那大约是1300年左右。

网友回答7:

Korea as a single entity did not appear until the 7th century AD with the unification of the peninsula. However, I believe Koreanic history goes back to at least 300 BC.

朝鲜作为一个单一的实体直到公元7世纪半岛统一后才出现。然而,我认为朝鲜的历史至少可以追溯到公元前300年。

网友回答8:

8、No, Korea does not have 5000 years of history as the ancestors of Koreans did not record events of the past 5000 years ago.

不,韩国没有5000年的历史,因为他们的祖先没有记录5000年前的事件。

网友回答9:

You cannot extend American history back to Africa. Generally people start the US at 1776 when the identity was born with the Declaration of Independence. You can go back to the pilgrims as part of American pre-history, but no further.

你不能把美国历史追溯到非洲。一般来说,人们认为,1776年《独立宣言》确立了美国的成立。你可以把清教徒作为美国史前的一部分,但不能再往前追溯了。

网友回答10:

10、My personal experience with Korean nationalists, including Korean nationalist historians, is that they simply regard anything that's not explicitly excluded from Gojoseon in Northeast Asia, to be Gojoseon territory, which is, of course, not in any way academic/objective. Indeed, had that been the case, it'd have made the events of the Han Dynasty's invasion of Gojoseon absurd, because the Han Dynasty only ever sieged one city - Wiman's capital - to bring down the whole state. I understand that the nationalist response to this is that by this time, Gojoseon had split into many different states, and so the Han only defeated a small section of Gojoseon - of course, this is equally ludicrous, as we find no archaeological evidence of such a large centralized power in the region, and there's also no Chinese record of a large Gojoseon state splitting into many pieces.

我个人与朝鲜民族主义者,包括朝鲜民族主义历史学家打交道的经验是,他们只是简单地认为,任何没有明确排除在朝鲜之外的东西,都是朝鲜的领土,当然,这在任何方面都不是学术或客观的。

网友回答11:

When I talk about this kind of matter, I don't like to quote reference from countries that are in conflict of interest (which mean Korea, China and Japan).

So let's refer to a difference source - this time I'm picking an article from the UNESCO website:

Let's see what they say:

"... The Joseon Tombs completes the 5,000 year history of royal tombs architecture in the Korean peninsula."

当我谈到这类问题时,我不喜欢引用利益冲突国家(指朝鲜、中国和日本)的说法。

让我们来看看一个不同的来源——这次我从联合国教科文组织的网站上挑选了一篇文章:

让我们看看他们是怎么说的:

“…朝鲜古墓证实了朝鲜半岛五千年的皇家陵墓建筑史。”

网友回答12:

The phrase "5,000 year history of royal tombs architecture" is a little wonky in itself. Do tombs constitute history in the sense of writing?

This is the same thing I'd argue about the pyramids. The hieroglyphs in the pyramids are history, but the pyramids themselves are not.

回复楼上:“五千年历史的皇陵建筑”这句话本身就有点不靠谱。陵墓是否构成了文字意义上的历史?

这和我对金字塔的看法是一样的。金字塔中的象形文字是历史,但金字塔本身不是。

网友回答13:

I think a distinction needs to be made between history and historiography. Historiography to me indicates that someone has decided to write down history for the sake of future generations to understand about his time and anterior. History itself doesn't need to be such a formal and conscious work to count as history. Any kind of factual recording, primary of secondary, intended for purpose of preservation qualifies as history in my opinion. The Mycenaean Greeks didn't leave behind any real historical work, but nobody would dispute that they are part of the historical period in Greece.

If we must resort to the strictest definition of historiography, China's history really starts with bronzes, since oracle bone scripts aren't a historical work.

我认为需要对历史和史学进行区分。历史学对我来说意味着人们决定为后代编纂历史,以便让他们了解那个时代发生的事情。历史本身不需要是这样一个正式和有意识的工作,历史就是历史。在我看来,任何以保存为目的的事实记录,无论是简单的还是次要的,都属于历史。迈锡尼的希腊人没有留下任何真正的历史作品,但没有人会怀疑他们是希腊历史时期的一部分。

如果非要用最严格的历史学定义的话,中国的历史应该是从青铜器时期开始的,因为甲骨文不是历史著作。

网友回答14:

I actually agree with the poster above. When we discuss the history of Iraq, we'd usually include at least references to the Mesopotamian period, even though the Sumerians spoke a language completely unrelated to Arabic. They're part of Iraqi history simply because they lived in a place that is now part of Iraq.

回复楼上:实际上我同意楼上的说法。当我们讨论伊拉克历史时,我们通常至少会提到美索不达米亚时期,即使苏美尔人说的语言与阿拉伯语完全无关。他们是伊拉克历史的一部分,因为他们生活的地方现在是伊拉克的一部分。

网友回答15:

Strictly speaking, history writing in China probably dates to the Western Zhou. In Korea, it is much later, and begins during the Three Kingdoms period. In Japan, it is even later than that.

严格地说,中国的历史记载可以追溯到西周。朝鲜,则要晚得多,始于三国时期。日本,甚至更晚。

网友回答16:

I sincerely doubt that there is 5000 years old Royal Tomb in the Korean peninsula. Dolmens cannot be counted because we have no idea who was placed in them.

我真心怀疑朝鲜半岛上是否有5000年历史的皇家陵墓。石棚墓不能被算在内,因为我们不知道谁躺在陵墓里面。

小编:你永远也叫不醒一个装睡的人。各位朋友,你们如何看待韩国有5000年历史呢?请在底部评论区说出你的看法,记得关注我们,每日更新,带你了解老外眼中的中国与世界。

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